DUOtrix Community Games Sales

[fog]

Well the figures are finally out and in the interests of informing fellow developers on the merits of Community Games, SiN has put together a little article here:

http://www.caffeinemonstersoftware.com/blog/2009/03/duotrix-sales-numbers/

What are my thoughts?  Well slightly lower than I expected, but not much for such a niche game on a low profile system.

As I've been saying on here since the day NXE was launched, Microsoft haven't handled Community Games well at all.  For something being lauded before it's launch as finally giving indi gamers a chance, they almost sneaked it out unannounced and appear to have been almost embarrassed by it ever since.  The fact Major Nelson published charts but never released any general sales figures set alarm bells ringing straight away.  If they were good Microsoft would have been hyping them immediately.

As far as DUOtrix itself is concerned, then, again, as I've mentioned before, we were almost invisible as we never appeared in the New Releases list or the Most Popular list (as that initially was just a copy of the New Releases one).  If you aren't on either list then it's almost impossible to find a game unless you already know what you are looking for.

Combine Community Games general lack of promotion with DUOtrix's virtual invisibility within that service and I'd say we've actually done fairly well to get the sales we have.

For future titles there's little we can do to change things.  It's all in Microsoft's hands.  It doesn't matter how good some of the games on there are, if you haven't got the numbers of people aware of it and trying the demos on the service then you'll never get the sales.

From a personal point of view I'm never going to get rich out of development, if I could I'd be doing Echoes360 as freeware, so all I want is the maximum number of people playing my games as possible.  If I'm not going to get the numbers on the 360 then I'm going to have to look at the PC again.

[JDog053]

Still very interesting none the less. Its just hard to get exposure, which is (as you mentioned before) why you should try and either synchronise a release with the PC or release solely on PC first for exposure purposes, so many people are aware of theis great new game coming out, then about a month or so down the line release it on the 360 with a big fanbase if sales are what you're after.

I was wondering though, who decides how many MS points the game is worth?

So far though, XBLCG is in its infancy so it should improve, fingers crossed!

[EricT]

This is the reason why Duotrix isn't selling:



SEE THAT?! ROCKETFART. And you can wash it down with RUMBLE MASSAGE.




JUST LOOK AT THAT! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!






































Kill Me.

[fog]

Still very interesting none the less. Its just hard to get exposure, which is (as you mentioned before) why you should try and either synchronise a release with the PC or release solely on PC first for exposure purposes, so many people are aware of theis great new game coming out, then about a month or so down the line release it on the 360 with a big fanbase if sales are what you're after.

Well as I've said before, if you're really worried about making more sales then the potential on the PC is many many times higher than on the 360.  So if you want to generate hype then it's really for the PC version that it should be done.

I was wondering though, who decides how many MS points the game is worth?

The developer does, although 200msp games must be under 50Mb.

So far though, XBLCG is in its infancy so it should improve, fingers crossed!

Very much so and, as the saying goes, things can only get better.

This is the reason why Duotrix isn't selling:
...
SEE THAT?! ROCKETFART. And you can wash it down with RUMBLE MASSAGE.

lol.  Well it sells

There's certainly a place for gimmicky and "not a game" titles as there is on the iPhone App Store, but the problem on XBCG is that these get exposure at the expense of other titles.

For developers it's frustrating and for users, the important people, it's a total mess.  The big question is how long will the current limited users of Community Games continue to dig through an ever increasing pile of titles to find what they want before they just give up?

The one potentially good thing on the horizon is Kodu, Microsofts drag-n-drop style game making tool for the 360.  That's had a load spent on it and IIRC it's getting released through Community Games, so M$ will be doing some serious pimping of that which will hopefully heighten the awareness of CC in general.

[/rant]

A couple more devs have divulged some info.  Mommy's Best released Weapon of Choice which is possibly the best and most successful games on CC and for a pro dev studio with a number of employees and contractors it's not good news.

http://www.mommysbest.blogspot.com/2009/03/big-fish-in-shallow-pond.html

http://www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/16797

[T_M_C]

Interesting Stuff.

First off, i've got to congratulate all concerned on getting the game completed and to market.   

At least the game has sold, even if it wasn't in the numbers you were hoping.  So, you know that people do enjoy playing the game.  Which is a positive to take from this project.

Don't forget that also the current financial world climate is in a pretty dire way, with banks and businesses closing left right and centre.  The world recession is in full swing.

Making a game visible enough to be downloaded, let along bought is a problem all commercial developers face.  And it's usualy traditionaly solved via paid advertising.  Something that isn't viable for a start up indie.

The standard PC route for a game release, is a press release to all magazines, relevent websites, game review sites ect for maximum exposure upon release and from there, news of the game filters across the net virally.

I'm guessing that something similar for the xbox could be achieved because as far as i can see, this game has been placed on XBLCG in the hopes that potential purchasers will trawl all the games there and stumble upon Duotris.

The Indies that do manage to make some decent money will tell you that Advertising and Promotion should be an ongoing process.  Don't be content to simply release the game, sit back and hope you make sales.

You have to actively sell the game on a continual basis.

Still, i'm no expert, i'm a coder not a business man, but i have found the indie publishing process a very interesting one albeit with a pretty steep learning curve.

TMC

[fog]

Interesting Stuff.

First off, i've got to congratulate all concerned on getting the game completed and to market.   

At least the game has sold, even if it wasn't in the numbers you were hoping.  So, you know that people do enjoy playing the game.  Which is a positive to take from this project.

Don't forget that also the current financial world climate is in a pretty dire way, with banks and businesses closing left right and centre.  The world recession is in full swing.

Making a game visible enough to be downloaded, let along bought is a problem all commercial developers face.  And it's usualy traditionaly solved via paid advertising.  Something that isn't viable for a start up indie.

The standard PC route for a game release, is a press release to all magazines, relevent websites, game review sites ect for maximum exposure upon release and from there, news of the game filters across the net virally.

I'm guessing that something similar for the xbox could be achieved because as far as i can see, this game has been placed on XBLCG in the hopes that potential purchasers will trawl all the games there and stumble upon Duotris.

The Indies that do manage to make some decent money will tell you that Advertising and Promotion should be an ongoing process.  Don't be content to simply release the game, sit back and hope you make sales.

You have to actively sell the game on a continual basis.

Still, i'm no expert, i'm a coder not a business man, but i have found the indie publishing process a very interesting one albeit with a pretty steep learning curve.

TMC

In this case I don't think individual game advertising is the main issue.  Several people on the Creators Club website have had TV, radio, magazine and website coverage and it has had no impact on sales at all.  It's only advertising directly on the 360 itself that will have a major impact and that's not possible.

The biggest hurdle most devs face is conversion rate and for very niche game like DUOtix this is predictably low (although not terrible by PC conversion rate standards), however in general conversion rates have been very good (up to 30%).  The big problem is that even the really high quality titles aren't getting enough demo downloads to take advantage of the high conversion rates and that's simply because, as comments in response to this news all over the net show, awareness of Community Games on the 360 is so low.

The guy that did Weapon of Choice has been contacted by a load of people saying they want to buy his game, but can't locate it on the Xbox360.  That's the highest profile game on there and potential customers, cash in hand, can't even find it. 

Basically it's a collective problem and not an individual game one.  Microsoft need to make more people aware of the Community Games area as a whole and make it easier for people to find what they want, then everyone benefits.


At least SiN has managed to generate a little publicity out of this

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/03/30/one-creator-disappointed-with-xna-community-games-sales/

[TheKhakinator]

You should've just made your game slightly-too-expensive so it got attention like Braid. Although IIRC Braid was on XBL wasn't it...

[fog]

You should've just made your game slightly-too-expensive so it got attention like Braid. Although IIRC Braid was on XBL wasn't it...

Yeah Braid was on XBL Arcade....and reading some of the feedback we probably did make it too expensive anyway   

If we wanted attention then we should have made a game with Fart in the title or an app that turns the joypad  into a vibrator as that's all the mainstream games sites seem to want to report on 

[EricT]

Interesting. Word Soup, not on the list, claims to have made $30,000+, with 40,000+ downloads. 

[fog]

Interesting. Word Soup, not on the list, claims to have made $30,000+, with 40,000+ downloads. 

Hmm that's not quite right.  SiN priced DUOtrix at 400msp which partially accounts for the low conversion rate, but also means the $'s so far are double what's shown there.


As I said earlier, things will get better and if you took this seriously and got to the point where you can release a game every 3 or 4 months you could still make some seriously decent money. (One good seller a year would be enough, but you can't count on that)

Only time will tell whether you need to be prepared to write quick card games and novelty apps to do that or whether you can make a reliable income writing games you really care about.  I know I could never do the former regardless of how good the money was.

[EricT]

Interesting. Word Soup, not on the list, claims to have made $30,000+, with 40,000+ downloads. 

Hmm that's not quite right.  SiN priced DUOtrix at 400msp which partially accounts for the low conversion rate, but also means the $'s so far are double what's shown there.


As I said earlier, things will get better and if you took this seriously and got to the point where you can release a game every 3 or 4 months you could still make some seriously decent money. (One good seller a year would be enough, but you can't count on that)

Only time will tell whether you need to be prepared to write quick card games and novelty apps to do that or whether you can make a reliable income writing games you really care about.  I know I could never do the former regardless of how good the money was.

I'm seriously contemplating creating a farting rumbling drumkit app...Fart Rumble Drumkit. You can make drums, with farts. Price it REALLY low, and see what happens.

I could record some very high quality farts too... just need to order up some mexican.

[EricT]

Million Dollar Game Idea. WeFartFlatulution

It's a rhythm game comprised of only farts. Using the avatars (is that supported yet), a band of up to 4 avatars farts out to their favorite songs (or songs I/others compose... you know, licensing sucks). Every time a note(fart) is hit correctly, the controller lets out a rumble. Think guitar hero meets rocket fart.

THIS IS IT GUYS. JUMP ON BOARD WITH ME.

(I'm kinda serious)

[fog]

Million Dollar Game Idea. WeFartFlatulution

It's a rhythm game comprised of only farts. Using the avatars (is that supported yet), a band of up to 4 avatars farts out to their favorite songs (or songs I/others compose... you know, licensing sucks). Every time a note(fart) is hit correctly, the controller lets out a rumble. Think guitar hero meets rocket fart.

THIS IS IT GUYS. JUMP ON BOARD WITH ME.

(I'm kinda serious)

lmao.  Avatars will be supported in the 3.1 update so that's all very doable.

And, all joking aside, it would sell loads. (at this point I don't know which smilie to use...  , or  )

Either way get off your arse and do it. 

[JDog053]

Its stupid really, why would Pong and Snake sell so well, even though you can play Pong for free online along with snake on any phone. People pay for the stupidest things.

Still i'm yet to get any MS points, last thing I bought was GeoWars Evolved 2, but when I do I pledge allegance to purchasing it as I said I would.

[T_M_C]

Just to be clear.

The point of issuing a press release and submitting a game for review to a large number of outlets, is to make your game visible, accessable ( so people know where to get it , website and download instructions ) and to generate hype.

Only time will tell whether you need to be prepared to write quick card games and novelty apps to do that or whether you can make a reliable income writing games you really care about.  I know I could never do the former regardless of how good the money was.

Yep.  I agree.

It seems that the money is in the casual, cheap and cheerful games market.

The sales figures for Bejeweled still make me shake my head.  Millions and millions.  Great game mind you.  If only i had thought of it.   

I remember Jeff Minter having a good ole moan about the initial sales figures for Space Giraffe being so low and that frogger was outselling his game several fold.
He got a fair bit of flack for his comments i seem to recall on various forums.

Looks like the reality of commercial game dev hits home.  It's the lucky few who do manage to make some decent money.

Don't forget that the game industry is a very saturated one.  Getting your game to stand out amongst the rest is pretty difficult.
And as time goes on, and more games get released the problem will only compound itself.

TMC