Echoes 360 : What would you like?

[fog]

Maybe, early next year there will be a thread like this, oh I don't know...Tension 360: What would you like? Now that'd be sweet!

One day...one day

Playing some Echoes one minor feature that'd be nice is a timed unpause - when you unpause it shows you the screen but doesn't actually start again for 3 seconds, to give you a chance to get your head. It also defeats that old 80s slow-mo technique with the Turbo start button.

Good call.  It's on the list.

i'd like new releases for pc, pleeeeaaase

Yeah you tell 'im!

I'm sure we'll get a new PC release when fog's good and ready.

Well whether or not there's a new PC release of Echoes, I'll soon have a functioning XNA game engine which is both PC and 360 compatible, so whatever I work on next will get a joint release on both formats.

[JDog053]

Do you have more in XNA game engine then you did in your <dodo> scripting engine? I remember you kept adding to that.

[fog]

Do you have more in XNA game engine then you did in your <dodo> scripting engine? I remember you kept adding to that.

In a couple of areas I have less.  For example I will now be hard coding the menus as and when I need them.

In the areas where it counts though I have more.  The new emitter and object system is a lot more flexible than the old DBPro code was.

The original idea behind the old <dodo> system was to write an engine where everything could be written in scripts, allowing other people to write games using it or just tweak whatever I released.  Somewhere down the line I'd still like to do that, but I'd now make a series of proper visual editors to make it more accessible than messing with text based scripts.

Which reminds me that I really do need to write myself some editors to make weapon design etc easier and, more importantly, quicker for myself

[DaZ Dicks]

An updated soundtrack by Hybrid Two

I've already suggested it on our private board.  It's upto you guys whether it happens or not and nothing to do with me

We have a private board?

Dan

[fog]

An updated soundtrack by Hybrid Two

I've already suggested it on our private board.  It's upto you guys whether it happens or not and nothing to do with me

We have a private board?

Dan

I'm sure Aaron will fill you in.

[PaulCunningham]

I think Echoes would pretty much work perfectly as it is mate - core gameplay is spot on, it looks gorgeous and plays like a dream.  Every new thing you add has the potential to break it and less is sometimes more.

I've never liked controlling the menu pointer with the analogue stick though so that's about the only thing I'd change (oh and add in some rumble and max the effects

[fog]

I think Echoes would pretty much work perfectly as it is mate - core gameplay is spot on, it looks gorgeous and plays like a dream.  Every new thing you add has the potential to break it and less is sometimes more.

Yeah that's the reasons I'm resisting the suggestions of bigger changes however much I like some of them.

The 3 extra enemies I'd coded and tested now looks like it will now be just the 2 and they are the least adventurous and hopefully least intrusive of the ideas I had.

I've never liked controlling the menu pointer with the analogue stick though so that's about the only thing I'd change (oh and add in some rumble and max the effects

Agreed.  The pointer control was a result of it being a game designed around the mouse with joypad control tagged on later.  Of course on the 360 that's not an issue

[DaZ Dicks]

One problem I can see with Echoes on the 360 is the obvious competition from geometry wars.

So one thing you will have to be sure of is that you can offer a very similar experience.....how about a co-op survival mode...make it through as many waves as possible? (not sure if you already have this im on a mac so havnt had a chance to play yet)

Also if you have a 'story' mode which could be like a gradual increase in difficulty from one level to the next, based on how many points you get on a level you can buy upgrades to your ship and the end level screen. then once you complete the single player you can go through again with everything you already unlocked....kinda like Resident Evil 5 (that made me play the game over and over)

Also a built in achievement system would be awesome (sucks Microsoft don't let you offer real ones)

Also a Hybrid Two score....this is a required element!

Dan

[fog]

One problem I can see with Echoes on the 360 is the obvious competition from geometry wars.

So one thing you will have to be sure of is that you can offer a very similar experience.....

I disagree   In a direct comparison to GW we need to offer something different and not a very similar experience.  Hopefully the slightly more forgiving gameplay of Echoes will help it appeal to people that found GW too difficult, cold and impenetrable.

Also a built in achievement system would be awesome (sucks Microsoft don't let you offer real ones)

There's already an achievement system in the old PC version and it will be in the 360 one too

Also a Hybrid Two score....this is a required element!

As I say, nothing to do with me.

[tilman]

I am a big fan of echos and I played it a lot. Exciting that you make a new version of it.

I'd agree that it does not need a lot of changes. But I think you should consider some changes to the flow of the game. Losing a lot of weapons has been mentioned as a problem in the forums. I also think it would be great if the enemies move at different speed depending on difficulty level, or, in a perfect world, on in-game performance of the player (so he can tweak difficulty whilst playing - I am refering to the concept of e.g. the police in GTA, where the player can control the difficulty by controling how many stars he wants...). I think what would be even cooler than new weapons are new extra items, e.g. an item that slows down some specific kinds of enemies for 3 seconds.

Communicating to the player what happens: It is not quite clear how much points you score when doing what, so some hints for the player would be great. I think you should also communicate better how much damage is dealt by enemies. Sometimes I lose only 3 points, sometimes 5... despite playing the game a lot I have not really understood (neither reflected a lot ) by which enemies different kinds of damage are caused.

I like your achievement system and I think you should add more achievements. Then also make it easier to unlock crack. I haven't unlocked crack, despite uncountable hours I spend playing echoes (and losing my progress as the profile got lost again )... But I figure you could have e.g. different difficulty levels in crack. So you could unlock the easy version of crack with e.g. 33% percent, normal with 66% etc...

It is a great game, it will be a great game
all the best with the new version!

[TheKhakinator]

I think the losing weapons hasn't been a big problem since you fixed the random powerup problems in the first version where you could play and get hardly any one round and then a ton the next round.

[DaZ Dicks]

One problem I can see with Echoes on the 360 is the obvious competition from geometry wars.

So one thing you will have to be sure of is that you can offer a very similar experience.....

I apologize, this is what I meant, but I was trying to say that the quality should be of the same standard (which I believe it is on pc )

Dan

[fog]

Hi tilman,
Thanks for taking the time to register and give me some feedback

I also think it would be great if the enemies move at different speed depending on difficulty level, or, in a perfect world, on in-game performance of the player (so he can tweak difficulty whilst playing - I am refering to the concept of e.g. the police in GTA, where the player can control the difficulty by controling how many stars he wants...).

I have a potentially interesting dynamic difficulty system that I'm currently playing with that might do what you want.  It's also linked to the bonus multiplier so it makes for a nice risk/reward system.  Hopefully

Communicating to the player what happens: It is not quite clear how much points you score when doing what, so some hints for the player would be great. I think you should also communicate better how much damage is dealt by enemies. Sometimes I lose only 3 points, sometimes 5... despite playing the game a lot I have not really understood (neither reflected a lot ) by which enemies different kinds of damage are caused.

That's exactly the sort of feedback I wanted and as a few people have made similar points I realise the mistakes I made.

It was a classic developer assumption.  I coded the thing and I knew how the scoring and damaged systems worked so I overlooked the fact that it wouldn't be clear to everyone else.

Communicating what's going on is something I will certainly be addressing.


Just to clear up, the amount of damage an enemy does in the current version of Echoes depends on how much energy it has left.  So a new Black Hole might do 20 points of damage, but one that you have almost destroyed might only do 1 point.  In the new version the damage done is fixed so things should be clearer.

I haven't unlocked crack...

You want this then
http://www.binaryzoo.com/forum/index.php?topic=993.0

I think the losing weapons hasn't been a big problem since you fixed the random powerup problems in the first version where you could play and get hardly any one round and then a ton the next round.

Yeah it's probably less of a problem than it was, but several people have mentioned it so it's getting tweaked.  You will still suffer some penalty for getting hit though. 


Thanks again gents.

[tilman]

I have a potentially interesting dynamic difficulty system that I'm currently playing with that might do what you want.  It's also linked to the bonus multiplier so it makes for a nice risk/reward system.  Hopefully

Risk/reward system sounds exciting!

It was a classic developer assumption.  [...]

Just to clear up, the amount of damage an enemy does in the current version of Echoes depends on how much energy it has left.  So a new Black Hole might do 20 points of damage, but one that you have almost destroyed might only do 1 point.  In the new version the damage done is fixed so things should be clearer.

Wow, I am impressed by the damage system you described... Sure it took a lot of work, which, because of the classical developer assumption, i never could appreciate up to now .

What came to my mind is that if you want to keep such a system you could fill the shapes with color, and let the color blur away if they have been hit/will cause less damage. I'd suppose that could work pretty well, tho it would change the look of the game considerably.

You want this then
http://www.binaryzoo.com/forum/index.php?topic=993.0

Exaclty that is what I wanted!! Cool game. Thanks

[fog]

What came to my mind is that if you want to keep such a system you could fill the shapes with color, and let the color blur away if they have been hit/will cause less damage. I'd suppose that could work pretty well, tho it would change the look of the game considerably.

Yeah that would work well, but as I said earlier, I'm dropping that variable damage system in the new version and all enemies of a certain type will do the same damage.

It's simpler that way and much easier for me to explain in any instructions....which I hate doing. 

Exaclty that is what I wanted!! Cool game. Thanks

Thanks