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Author Topic: Monkey & AGK  (Read 55084 times)
fog
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« on: February 06, 2011, 05:42:01 PM »

Apparently Monkey is the name of the latest language from Mark Sibly of Blitz Basic fame and it sounds very interesting in theory.

A multi platform language that plans to target:

* HTML5
* Flash
* XNA
* Android
* Native GL
* iPhone

Release sounds like it's imminent and there's already a small video on Youtube of it running on an iPhone[/url].


And just to reignite the Dark Basic vs Blitz wars it appears as though The Game Creators have something imminent with similar aims in mind, although TGC seem to be going for a more developer friendly but bloated approach.

This could get very very interesting.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 10:15:07 AM by fog » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2011, 10:29:57 AM »

Yeh,  the old rivalry continues.   Tongue

Probably more in the minds of us dev's than the actual language creators.

I've been following Monkey for a while now and it's got the Blitzbasic community quite excited.

But it's quite irrelevent for me.  I have no plans to use it or any desire at present too.

I still get the Gamecreators newsletter, so am aware of their product too.  Although i don't know too much about it.

Mobile / phone gaming seems to be where most people want to code for now so it seems only logical that the Blitz and Dark basic creators move their attention there.

But, i imagine they will still be small fish in a very large pond of dev systems currently available.

They will both have to be stable and robost systems to compete with Unity for example.

Still, best of luck to them.

Both companies are still afloat in these financialy difficult times.

Which is quite some achievement.

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« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 10:31:47 AM by The_Masked_Coder » Logged
JDog053
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2011, 05:52:42 PM »

They need to be very careful.

At current XNA is the nicest and easiest system for mobile development that i've used. I don't rate OpenGL ES and C++ with the XCode IDE for example, very clunky and on an erm....a Mac for a start ;p.
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fog
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2011, 06:29:10 PM »

I've been following Monkey for a while now and it's got the Blitzbasic community quite excited.

But it's quite irrelevent for me.  I have no plans to use it or any desire at present too.

I still get the Gamecreators newsletter, so am aware of their product too.  Although i don't know too much about it.
First I've heard of either TBH as I don't get the TGC newsletter and have never followed Blitz developments much.

I'll have to have a bit of a look around and see what people are saying Smiley


Mobile / phone gaming seems to be where most people want to code for now so it seems only logical that the Blitz and Dark basic creators move their attention there.
Yeah that's very true, although in my case I'm looking primarily because it does PC stuff with the other platforms being a bonus.

I love using C# so if Monkey does what it claims and supports C# and multi platforms then I'll be very interested. Smiley


They will both have to be stable and robost systems to compete with Unity for example.
Has anyone any experience of Unity?  I've read some very mixed reviews online and it's not exactly cheap if you want to go truly multi platform.


EDIT:
They need to be very careful.

At current XNA is the nicest and easiest system for mobile development that i've used. I don't rate OpenGL ES and C++ with the XCode IDE for example, very clunky and on an erm....a Mac for a start ;p.
What is it you like though JDog?  XNA or C#?

The more I dabble the more I realise I love C#, but XNA can be a pain for your PC audience (which is what I really care about).  I had first hand experience of this at the weekend, trying to get a demo of 1982 running on a friends PC was a lot harder than it should have been and I dont look forward to answering support requests when I finally release on PC.  I was inundated when I used DBPro and all they had to do for that was have DirectX up to date  Tongue
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 06:34:55 PM by fog » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2011, 10:23:29 AM »

Quote
I love using C# so if Monkey does what it claims and supports C# and multi platforms then I'll be very interested.

I think Monkey is it's own language, not C#.

From what i can gather it's a much simplified version of blitzmax.



Quote
Has anyone any experience of Unity?  I've read some very mixed reviews online and it's not exactly cheap if you want to go truly multi platform.

I've not used it, but have downloaded a couple of demo's written with the system.

The island demo was pretty cool.

If at some point i want to code something in 3d, i think i'll first look at Unity.
As blitzmax relies on 3rd party 3d engines.

I've also read mixed reviews, but on the whole, the impression i get is that it's a well supported, professional and stable product.

I've just been too busy really to experiment with it.

But it supports C# as one of 3 scripting languages.


Quote
The more I dabble the more I realise I love C#, but XNA can be a pain for your PC audience (which is what I really care about).  I had first hand experience of this at the weekend, trying to get a demo of 1982 running on a friends PC was a lot harder than it should have been and I dont look forward to answering support requests when I finally release on PC.  I was inundated when I used DBPro and all they had to do for that was have DirectX up to date


Glad to hear some progress on 1982.   Cheesy

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« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 10:48:21 AM by The_Masked_Coder » Logged
fog
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2011, 05:58:22 PM »

Quote
I love using C# so if Monkey does what it claims and supports C# and multi platforms then I'll be very interested.

I think Monkey is it's own language, not C#.

From what i can gather it's a much simplified version of blitzmax.
Apparently the "language will be very bmx-like" and as I've never studied any Bmax code I've no idea if I'd like that or not.  Although as it's a Basic I don't see a problem.

After my limited experience with DBPro and XNA all I'm really bothered about is an IDE that has decent error reporting.  I could never go back to debugging the old DBPro way.  "Error: Good luck finding it."


Glad to hear some progress on 1982.   Cheesy
A little.  It's just a shame the experience of trying to get it to run was a bit disheartening TBH.  I'm not sure if we were just unlucky or whether that's typical of XNA stuff on PC.
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JDog053
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2011, 07:35:01 PM »

I've never really had an issue running stuff on PC with XNA, are you having any specific issues?
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fog
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 10:47:16 AM »

I've never really had an issue running stuff on PC with XNA, are you having any specific issues?
I hadn't had any issues either running on 3 of my own PC's, although I now realise that's because I have all the XNA dev stuff installed on them.

This was the first time I've tried to get something running on what you might call a typical users PC without all the necessary .NET updates and the Framework Redistributable.  Even installing those didn't solve the problem though because I'd used GamerServicesComponent for my LIVE stuff which, after much hassle and research, I found out only seems to work if you have a full XNA Game Studio install.

Your average user just isn't going to do all that.
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JDog053
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 04:21:59 PM »

Thats probably why i'd not had an issue then. Though it shouldn't be too difficult for you to alter when it comes to crunch time surely? Smiley
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fog
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2011, 10:16:44 PM »

Thats probably why i'd not had an issue then. Though it shouldn't be too difficult for you to alter when it comes to crunch time surely? Smiley
lol.  Well this pretty much is crunch time as gameplay wise 1982 is finished and all I wanted to do was test out some PC bits.

Looks like I'll have to remove the GamerServicesComponent bits (which is essentially all my highscore table code).  That still leaves the .NET updates for the user to handle and the Framework Redistributable to install and I know from past experience how that will go down with the end user.

Maybe there's a reason why so few of the XLIG releases are ever seen on PC?
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Prime_8
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 05:48:12 AM »

i keep 1 clean comp in my house ( tv room ) , it is a play only PC and i never put any dev files on it .
i deploy to it , .. run  to tv room
flick TV over to PC , and try and run the app/game.
seems to work for most things.

or i have more than 1 release mode ...    debug , release Full , release Beta . release Demo
i can have it change file source depending on mode , so Demo may load a version of a header that limits sections of code in the app/game.

~ example one of my P3D users has a workstation that has no sound device .. LOL , so i had to make a mode that did not even init sound .
once i did that i saw some other uses.

but with all the API 's and engines , i stick with NF , especialy now physics is in and shoudl be in next beta. ( physics runs in a thread and is awesome on multi core comps )

any how i suppose if i had a 360 , i may have gone more XNA.
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2011, 10:34:50 AM »

I must say i can understand your frustration.

I had quite a bit of hassle just getting jdog's platform demo running.

Having a new pc, which didn't have any runtimes installed.

Then installing the wrong xna version.  And upgrading .net twice.

The latest xna runtimes didn't work with Jdogs demo and i had to revert back to an earlier version.

And finding the xna runtimes wasn't straightforward either.  As i was on a library computer and didn't want to install to that machine.


Prime has the right idea with having a second basic machine for testing.  But not everyone can do this.

So, the only real solution is to post public demo's for user feedback.

But then, only a handful of people are prepared to test software and provide feedback.

But,  i must admit, the Xna and .net framework issues are a big turn off for me.

If i was an Xbox developer then it wouldn't be an issue, but as i'm strictly PC, i'm affraid it is a big issue.


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JDog053
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2011, 06:04:36 PM »

True, I remember that. Could be a good reason why there aren't.
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fog
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2011, 07:55:47 PM »

Only got myself to blame really.  Although my old dev PC died I still have 3 and testing my 1982 project on all of them worked fine, but then it would as I have the full XNA install on all of them  Tongue

ANyway I'm waiting for any news on Monkey and TGC's effort while checking out other language options now.
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2011, 10:24:23 AM »

Quote
ANyway I'm waiting for any news on Monkey and TGC's effort while checking out other language options now.

So, are you really considering dropping XNA ?

After all the effort you've put into your engine.

I don't think Monkey will appear anytime soon.

But i do have the utmost respect for Mark Sibly.  Blitzmax is the best language i've used to date.
So, i'm confident Monkey will be of an equally high standard.

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