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Author Topic: Monkey & AGK  (Read 54995 times)
fog
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 10:00:00 PM »

So, are you really considering dropping XNA ?
I certainly am Smiley  I want to do PC Freeware and from what I've learned about that over the years XNA isn't the right choice.

I'd also like to dabble in stuff for my iPhone and iPad so a language that will let me do both would be perfect.


After all the effort you've put into your engine.
True, but I think it's been valuable.  I've learned a hell of a lot about code structure by using an OOP language for the first time and just as much by building another game engine.  I've already got a bunch of notes on what I would do differently next time.

And that XNA engine will still be there and similar enough to my next effort to make porting of future projects relatively painless if I decide to. Smiley


But i do have the utmost respect for Mark Sibly.  Blitzmax is the best language i've used to date.
So, i'm confident Monkey will be of an equally high standard.
Outside of Apollo I don't think I've ever seen anyone have a bad word about Blitz and the community is certainly a lot more productive which is a good reflection of the language.

There are plenty of language options though as I've found out since I started looking.  I'm not in any huge hurry to make a decision  Smiley
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T_M_C
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2011, 10:20:14 AM »

Those seem perfectly logical reasons.   Grin

I am suprised by your decision though.

But i agree, it's all a learning experience.

I've been through alot of different languages too, and find that each one adds to my knowledge base.

Hope you find something that meets all your requirements.

TMC
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2011, 06:24:53 PM »

Hope you find something that meets all your requirements.
I'm not sure such a language exists lol Smiley
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T_M_C
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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2011, 10:40:18 AM »

Monkey is Out.   Grin

http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=93996

http://www.monkeycoder.co.nz/

And demo available too.

Pricey though.  100.00 or near as dammit.

I had no idea it was so close to completion.   Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 10:42:32 AM by The_Masked_Coder » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2011, 08:11:35 PM »

Yay Smiley

Pricey though.  100.00 or near as dammit.
Yeah not exactly cheap.  But if you do go the multi-platform route then it's actually a minor cost as you would need additional dev licenses (Apple, XNA etc) and hardware to test it on.  Shocked

If it gets decent support and updates (What are Blitz like with regards to that?) then you could easily use it for 4 or 5 years so as a one off payment it's not too bad (It sounds like TGC will be using some kind of 2 tier payment with an additional subscription fee charge too for their new dev tool so that's not going to happen)

My other concern having played with it a little is how crap the IDE is....and that's coming from someone that was more than happy with the old DBPro editor that everyone else hated.  The Jungle IDE looks lovely but that's another 40!


Anyway some proper impressions.  I must say that I'm very impressed.  It seems like a nicely structured stripped down language with enough OOP style stuff in there to make a move away from C# not too traumatic.

Of course the whole point of it is the multi-platform support and I've no way of testing that yet so you just have to make some assumptions...a) that it actually works and b) that the performance doesn't totally suck.

Of course the nature of the language means it is lacking in a lot of bells and whistles so can I work around them?  Well it took 30 seconds to get full screen motion blur working and lets be honest, I don't rely on anything more advanced than that.  Tongue


So. I'm not going to jump in just yet, but on initial impressions I'm struggling to think of many reasons not to give it a go.  Certainly no major negatives as with the other alternatives I've considered over the last couple of weeks.

Decisions decisions....
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 10:09:29 AM »

Ahh thats very interesting.

Yeh, i agree with you about the long term money savings.

I won't be trying monkey as i'm more than happy sticking with Blitzmax and mobile development doesn't appeal to me, at least not at the moment.


I suspect all IDE's will pale compared to an official Microsoft product.

The default Blitzmax IDE which is what i use, is also very basic and lacking in features.  And has a few annoying features, but i find it suits me fine.  And i don't need any of the bells and whistles of other IDE's.

I have tried some third party IDE's but found them unreliable, so for safety's sake i stick with the default IDE.

I dare say, third party IDE's are already in progress for Monkey.  There are maybe 5 - 6 for Blitzmax that i can think of off the top of my head.

And Blitz research ( Mark Sibly in particular ) seems very regular with updates.
Blitzmax has had constant updates since i started using it.

I expect there to be alot of initial updates for the language, as it enters public use.  As all languages do, so i wouldn't expect a totally bug free system.

Also, there has always been poor documentation with the Blitz products.  I often have to visit the forums because the Doc's are lacking.
I wouldn't be suprised if the same is true for Monkey.

I just recieved the latest Game Creators newsletter which had an extensive Q and A section on their App kit and it looks like they're using some Assembler routines to keep the speed of the system up.
I've no idea if monkey does the same, but Blitzmax uses a third party assembler when compiling so i assume Monkey does the same.


Quote
Of course the nature of the language means it is lacking in a lot of bells and whistles so can I work around them?  Well it took 30 seconds to get full screen motion blur working and lets be honest, I don't rely on anything more advanced than that.

Well, thats the whole point of the language isn't it.

Ease of use.   Grin

I've no idea when the Game Creators app system will be released but i think it's entering Public Beta now.

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« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 10:20:55 AM by The_Masked_Coder » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2011, 06:39:07 PM »

Also, there has always been poor documentation with the Blitz products.  I often have to visit the forums because the Doc's are lacking.
I wouldn't be suprised if the same is true for Monkey.
The initial Monkey docs aren't great although they are better than anything I saw from DBPro.  There are a couple of nice "Getting Started" guides which are nice and while the guides to the actual commands themselves is lacking, everything is so simple it's not a problem.


I just recieved the latest Game Creators newsletter which had an extensive Q and A section on their App kit and it looks like they're using some Assembler routines to keep the speed of the system up.
From what I can gather TGC's effort converts your code to bitcode which is then interpreted at run time so it will be slower, possibly considerably slower, than Monkey.  There are also some doubts about whether what they are planning to do for App Store games is against Apples rules so that will be interesting to watch.


I've no idea if monkey does the same, but Blitzmax uses a third party assembler when compiling so i assume Monkey does the same.
Almost yes.  What Monkey does is convert the code you write to native code for the platform you are targeting.  So for example if you want to target the XBox360 then your Monkey code is translated into C#/XNA and then that code is compiled using Microsoft's compiler to make your XBox "exe".

That means the results should be reasonably fast and you also have the option to tweak that native code to app platform specific features if you so wish.


My only concern now is how much, if at all, the graphics side of things will be expanded as it is missing a couple of small but relatively important features.  BunnyMonkey!
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 10:31:54 AM »

Had a little bit more play with the demo and BunnyMonkey approves  BunnyMonkey! .....although he's obviously slightly biased.

Reading the official forums is quite reassuring too as Mark is addressing issues quickly and just as importantly the community are already expanding and improving on the language in various areas (WP7 support, Box2D physics, improved IDE etc.).
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 08:21:05 PM »

Cool.

The Blitz forums are chock a block with Monkey posts.

It's sort of taken over.  And has a new board there as well.

I played a version of Pong earlier, called monkey Pong, written with Monkey for a browser.  And it seemed to work well, although it did start with some error messages.   Roll Eyes

Adding in a physics engine sounds really cool.

Monkey is getting alot of attention at the moment.

Are you still using the demo, or have you bought it ?

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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2011, 09:11:35 PM »

I played a version of Pong earlier, called monkey Pong, written with Monkey for a browser.  And it seemed to work well, although it did start with some error messages.   Roll Eyes
It's a shame pretty much all the demos on the Monkey site are for HTML5.  When it works it's cool having a game running in a browser, unfortunately some older browsers don't support it at all and some of those that do have questionable performance.

These problems will disappear as HTLM5 becomes "standard", it's just not the best light to show monkey off in IMO.


Are you still using the demo, or have you bought it ?
Just the demo for now.  Still making a few notes on what I want from my game engine when I rewrite it, so when I'm ready to start coding again then I'll make a final decision of what language to use.  TGC's effort(*) might be out by then too.

(*) It's got such a generic, boring name I can never remember what it's called.  There's something to be said for giving a language a stupid name...like Monkey  BunnyMonkey!
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« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2011, 08:23:59 AM »

Quote
It's got such a generic, boring name I can never remember what it's called.  There's something to be said for giving a language a stupid name...like Monkey 


Lol.   Grin

Very true

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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2011, 02:33:40 PM »

Dum de dum.....actually quite keen to get started on coding with something again now, just not sure whether to take the plunge with Monkey or wait and check out a few more alternatives.

Sounds like TGC's app, whenever it's released, is being done 2 different versions with the 2nd version being the only one worth using....and that's not being released until some time after version 1.  Sounds like we can count that one out.

Looked into Unity quite a bit more and aside from the potentially high cost, I don't think it suits my dev style as it's more editor and tool based than coding everything.
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2011, 05:11:03 PM »

Quote
Dum de dum.....actually quite keen to get started on coding with something again now, just not sure whether to take the plunge with Monkey or wait and check out a few more alternatives.

Cool.   Cheesy

What are your plans for 1982.  Will you be porting it to your new language.  Have you released it for Xbox ?

All iv'e seen of it are a couple of screenshots.
I was looking forward to playing it.


Quote
Looked into Unity quite a bit more and aside from the potentially high cost, I don't think it suits my dev style as it's more editor and tool based than coding everything.

Well, from what i have read, thats a popular misconception.

You can just code with the system,  bypassing the editors.

But there is a free version.  So, i would reccomend downloading it and giving it a whirl.

The only real issue i see for you, would be that Unity is primarily a 3d system.  I've read posts from users who say, there are better alternatives for 2d.

And that the developers are working on a 2d system at the moment.

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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2011, 10:02:18 PM »

I downloaded the unity demo and well, couldn't get anywhere with it. I too was stumbled by the editor-esque interface and the lack of any proper "getting started" tutorial. I couldn't even find a way to edit the premade scripts...  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2011, 07:11:30 AM »

Quote
I downloaded the unity demo and well, couldn't get anywhere with it. I too was stumbled by the editor-esque interface and the lack of any proper "getting started" tutorial. I couldn't even find a way to edit the premade scripts...


Thats worrying.  Roll Eyes
Considering the millions that have been spent developing the system.

I too have downloaded the Unity demo, but havn't tried it.

I must say though, that tutorials and a getting started section have always been lacking for me, whatever language or system i've tried.

Pity i havn't tried Unity.  As i would be able to comment from experience.

I guess it's another case of trawling the forums for info.

TMC


Footnote

I've just been to the website to see what the status on tutorials is.

Just clicked the Support button and there is a wealth of tutorials and documentation.
Downloadable .pdf's too.

http://unity3d.com/support/documentation/

http://unity3d.com/support/resources/tutorials/3d-platform-game

I would have thought that the relevent info would be included with the demo download though.

I've not installed my version so havn't checked.

They even have video tutorials on the site.

eg
"1. Introduction. Unity is deceptively simple to get started with. This is a basic introduction to Unity and its graphical user interface."

http://unity3d.com/support/documentation/video/  

Plenty there to get your teeth into.   Cheesy


« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 11:04:06 AM by The_Masked_Coder » Logged
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