Monkey & AGK

[T_M_C]

My engine has kind of evolved to the point where it's not just for shmups any more.  The XNA code used for E+ uses non-specific actors for everything and while they could be enemies, explosion particles or bullets, they can just as easily be Pacman ghosts, Mario coins, Skidmarks cars, menu buttons etc etc.

Yeh, thats pretty much what i thought.

Overtime, code grows and engines get more features which allow for greater variety.

The same thing has happened with my editors and code.

TMC

[fog]

Overtime, code grows and engines get more features which allow for greater variety.

Yeah mine has kind of evolved and yet devolved at the same time.   The one I used in DBPro was more restrictive in what it could do so in some places I've actually removed code to allow for flexibility.

The thing that will take time in Monkeywill be things like file input/output, sound handling etc....all the things you need before you build your engine on top.  From the little code I've seen from AGK it has a lot of these things already in place.

[fog]

AGK details just announced. Good price now the C++ version is included with the Tier 1 "BASIC".  Hopefully there will be a demo available straight away.

No support for Android, although there is for Bada and MeeGo....and I'm not even sure what they are. 

Pre-ordering will begin next week.

Official release date will be 15th August 2011.

Pricing info (at last!)

AGK Pricing, normal price: $111.99

This will be discounted by 30% for our immediate community of users for the first three months of release:
Community Pricing (30% discount): $77.99

Includes all V1 platforms which includes: Windows, Mac, iOS, Bada and MeeGo.

Tier1 (BASIC) and Tier2 (C++ libraries) are all included, one complete solution.

Corporates with turnover greater than $100,000 - $999
Users who grow to that level have to upgrade ($887)

[T_M_C]

It's interesting they are accepting Pre Orders.

I wonder how many people will actually buy the product without trying the demo first.

TMC

[fog]

It's interesting they are accepting Pre Orders.

I wonder how many people will actually buy the product without trying the demo first.

Knowing the Apollo crowd I think quite a few will pre-order.  They seem a lot more enthusiastic about TGC products than the Blitz crowd do about BRL ones.  I think that's the innocence of youth vs old cynical coders lol

I remember pre-ordering DBPro and waiting over a year for it IIRC. 

[T_M_C]

I remember pre-ordering DBPro and waiting over a year for it IIRC.

Lol. 

TMC

[fog]

I remember pre-ordering DBPro and waiting over a year for it IIRC.

Lol. 

I was a killer at the time.  I had spent ages researching languages before deciding on DBPro.  I was totally hyped to get going on a project after a several year gap from coding....and that buzz was killed when the promised release date was missed and the months drifted on.  By the time it arrived in the post I had lost interest in coding again and it sat on my desk unopened for ages. 


Anyway my current limbo feels somewhat similar as I'm raring to go and just need to choose between Monkey and AGK so the release and demo can't come soon enough.


Incidentally I downloaded and tried GLBasic as that also does a similar thing.  It looks quite promising as things like shaders are integrated too, but I game up when the first few demos I tried all failed to compile.    Although I think it's just because the language is still being updated and they are old demos, it's enough to make me look elsewhere.

[T_M_C]

Yeh, i know how you feel.

I was pretty excited about DB Pro too.

Having been a Dark Basic Classic coder for several years, i was getting pretty frustrated with it's limitations and DB Pro promised so much.

But when it finaly arrived and it was obviously bugged and fell far short of what i was expecting i eventually jumped ship to Blitz Basic.

Which is what i should have done in the first place.

Just a pity i found the inferior Dark Basic before Blitz.

Incidentally I downloaded and tried GLBasic as that also does a similar thing.  It looks quite promising as things like shaders are integrated too, but I game up when the first few demos I tried all failed to compile.    Although I think it's just because the language is still being updated and they are old demos, it's enough to make me look elsewhere.

I've read several posts on the Blitz forum from people who praise GL Basic.
But i havn't tried it myself.

It's really unforgivable to have a product that won't compile code.
Even if the language is being upgraded or not, the demo should work regardless.  Or else it shouldn't be available for download.

There are so many languages available now that it needs to work flawlessly to make a sale.

TMC

[fog]

I've read several posts on the Blitz forum from people who praise GL Basic.
But i havn't tried it myself.

It's really unforgivable to have a product that won't compile code.
Even if the language is being upgraded or not, the demo should work regardless.  Or else it shouldn't be available for download.

There are so many languages available now that it needs to work flawlessly to make a sale.

Yeah I've read a few good things about GL Basic which is the only reason I tried it as the official website is stupidly off putting.

http://www.glbasic.com/

Not truly terrible at first glance, but none of the news is dated.  Is it still being worked on and supported?  When was it last updated?  No idea.  I do know from looking elsewhere on the net that it now supports Android, but again you wouldn't know that from reading the official site as there's no mention of it at all.

Very strange when you've got a product to sell.  Mind the Blitz/Monkey site isn't much better.  I can only assume Mark is waiting until it's more mature before really trying to sell it.

[fog]

TGC's App Game Kit now available for pre-order.

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2295

No new info on that product page and there still seems to be some confusion over what you're buying and what it can do.

You can code in both Basic or C++ although using Basic seems to mean you have to publish your games through TGC....although even they say they are still looking into whether this is possible.    I'd be C++ so wouldn't effect me.

Also this is slightly vague:

Free bug fixes and any minor updates

What's a "minor update"?  Android support is being added after launch so would we have to pay extra for that?  I'm guessing yes?

[Prime_8]

typical .. sounding.

that's the type of stuf fthat put me off TGC .

[JDog053]

Yeah, after finding my feet with DarkBASIC I have no desire to return to its products after being spoiled with the lovely IDE of Visual Studio.

[fog]

Yeah, after finding my feet with DarkBASIC I have no desire to return to its products after being spoiled with the lovely IDE of Visual Studio.

IDE's are my big concern right now.  Using DBPro I was honestly happy using the provided feature free IDE, however having used VS for a while I'd really miss some important functionality.

I'm not sure what the AGK default IDE is like, but the Monkey one is, um, functional at best.

Another thing lacking in Monkey is decent error reporting and I'm not expecting much from AGK given that DBPro's was awful, pointing you to the wrong line whenever it gave you any meaningful error message.

[fog]

Official response from TGC about submitting games to the App Store:

This template project will essentially be the AGK Player but built specifically to run your bytecode, and only your bytecode. Therefore it is a standalone app in its own right from the point of view of Apple. We think this has the most chance of making it through Apple's approval process.

So the method of submitting any app written with AGK might not be acceptable to Apple?  I think I'd want that cleared up before using AGK. 

[fog]

Following on from my blog post what's slightly disappointing about Monkey so far isn't what it can't do, it's not knowing where the language is heading.

What features does Mark intend to add and, more importantly, whether he sticks rigidly to this rule that only commands supported by all platforms will be added.  Because of this right now there isn't even an easy way to change the resolution of a PC game.