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Author Topic: The Binary Zoo Bog  (Read 605679 times)
fog
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« Reply #285 on: June 14, 2008, 11:25:36 AM »

Cheers Paul, I might take you up on that some time Smiley

First though I need to do what I said, and write something simple so I have a benchmark for what sort of performance I should expect, as right now I'm not sure how big the problem is or if I even have one.  That's really what I should have done for a first project in a completely new language, rather than writing a proper game with screen buffering, shaders etc straight away.
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fog
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« Reply #286 on: June 18, 2008, 11:06:34 PM »

While looking into my current slowdown issues (that might not actually exist Smiley ) I've just been reading this article on High Frequency Code and it's really interesting.

http://creators.xna.com/en-us/tutorial/optimization_highfrequency

Basically in the example given of a particle system, the slowdown only happens on the 360 and not the PC, but the problem isn't on the graphics side (GPU), but with the large number of calculations passed to the CPU and the way it handles them.

Not having done any previous reading and not knowing any better, I'd always assumed the fastest way to do maths with vectors was:
Code:
vector3 velocity
velocity += velocity * acceleration
but apparently this is much faster:
Code:
vector3 velocity
velocity.X += velocity.X * acceleration
velocity.Y += velocity.Y * acceleration
velocity.Z += velocity.Z * acceleration

I don't think that's anything to do with my potential problem, but it's worth remembering and applying in future.  SOme other good tips in there too. Smiley
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donny
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« Reply #287 on: June 22, 2008, 03:21:23 PM »

Now the vakations commence i thought i'd give XNA a try again, since you all are doing pretty well.
Problem is, when i tried it first (months before you guys) there was nearly no documentation, so i gave up.
But now i'm overwhelmed.
Could you give me some good sites to start looking?
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fog
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« Reply #288 on: June 22, 2008, 11:29:34 PM »

Now the vakations commence i thought i'd give XNA a try again, since you all are doing pretty well.
Problem is, when i tried it first (months before you guys) there was nearly no documentation, so i gave up.
But now i'm overwhelmed.
Could you give me some good sites to start looking?

I'm not sure whether you want tutorials, examples or what, but here are the only sites I have bookmarked. 

Official Creators Club site - has plenty of downloadable demos...
http://creators.xna.com/education/catalog/

Ziggyware - seems to have plenty of snippets and tuts...although I can't say how good they are as I haven't got around to reading any yet   Smiley
http://www.ziggyware.com/articles.php?cat_id=6

Shawn Hargreaves Blog - thanks to Paul Cunningham for this one...
http://blogs.msdn.com/shawnhar/default.aspx

I'm possibly the worst person in the world to ask for tutorial links mind, as I just tend to dive in without doing much research   Tongue

I'm sure Paul or SiN will have some better ones.


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fog
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« Reply #289 on: June 26, 2008, 10:01:54 PM »

Well I've been too wiped out to do much for a while, but eventually, after running several examples of particle systems written by other people, I've finally come to the conslusion that there isn't much wrong with my code.  Well it's probably crap, but performance wise it seems reasonably ok.  BunnyMonkey!

That official article about high frequency code that I posted earlier mentions you should easily get 20k particles on screen without slow down, and I don't get that, but it's an irelevant statement without saying what size the particles are, what the draw method is, how mant different textures are used, and anything else you might also have running in the program.

Either way I'm not too bothered.  I now have several thousand of the relatively large star FX animations from DUO on screen, all with some kind of feedback loop going on and it looks mental  Kang-a-roo!  It's much more than satisfactory already, and if I do eventually find out that I can speed the code up somehow then great, although right now I couldn't possibly put any more objects on screen anyway.  If nothing else then I know I can get some framerate improvement but putting all the animation images on a single texture and not having individual ones as is the case now.

So after that break, it's onwards with the actual development.  I have the player, fx, bullets, sound and music so it's about time we had something to kill.  It's the return of the Dumb Bouncy Alien Blobs ....perfect playtesting cannon fodder.  Kang-a-roo!

Then we can start the fun bit and see which direction developing the actual gameplay takes us, and what game this whole thing starts to turn into  BunnyMonkey!
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SiN
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« Reply #290 on: June 26, 2008, 11:00:46 PM »

Yeah dude, don't worry about it. Just keep yourself busy writing games. If shit happens, I'll sort it out. Smiley


Mo
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binary zoo mobile developer | 32x32 . duotrix . geomex . smiley's shooty adventure . by caffeine monster software | my blog
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« Reply #291 on: June 27, 2008, 04:04:15 PM »

Yeah, that sounds really good Fog. I bet you can't wait to kill your copyrighted dumb bouncing blob creatures on your 360 ! Should be rewarding. Then you'll have the bare bones that is a game ! I know how you feel with being wiped out too !
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fog
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« Reply #292 on: July 01, 2008, 09:52:48 PM »

Fight, Fight, Fight...

What a night.  My motion blur routine and my shaderzzzz have had a major falling out and now refuse to be seen on screen together.  No idea what's got into them.  Motion blur is quite happy spreading his blurry goodness, but the second shaderzzzz turns up, he fades away in an alpha cloud.

No amount of reasoning or bribes of cookies has helped the situation, so I'm going to have to do something quite radical and have a think.  BunnyMonkey!

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PaulCunningham
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« Reply #293 on: July 01, 2008, 11:35:38 PM »

Purple screen?
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Paul Cunningham
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fog
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« Reply #294 on: July 02, 2008, 11:25:45 AM »

Purple screen?
Not this time.  Is that a common problem?

Anyhoo I've had a sleep on it and decided it's nothing too technical....just my own stupidity....which is always my first assumption anyway.  BunnyMonkey!

I do a simple routine with the backbuffer  for the motion blur, and split drawing the foreground and background images onto two different textures (so I can apply different shaderzzz to each), then bring all the resultant images together on screen.  Basically the foreground image was overwriting the background with the motion blur on.  It's slightly more complicated than that but you get the idea.  Essentially I is dumb  Smiley
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SiN
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« Reply #295 on: July 02, 2008, 04:12:58 PM »

shaderzzz
Is that the technical term? Wink


Mo
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binary zoo mobile developer | 32x32 . duotrix . geomex . smiley's shooty adventure . by caffeine monster software | my blog
fog
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« Reply #296 on: July 02, 2008, 09:26:50 PM »

shaderzzz
Is that the technical term? Wink

Sorry it's just that it's the current buzzword that everyone is getting excited about and, in truth, it's all a bit boring unless you're a developer.

For the average person it's as exciting as discussions on dual core processors. 

"Hey, let me tell you all about shaderzzz."

"Tell you what. Don't !" BunnyMonkey!
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PaulCunningham
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« Reply #297 on: July 03, 2008, 08:11:20 AM »

I had what must have been a ten minute conversation with myself pretending to explain to my mate what vertex and pixel shaders were on the drive in to work today - christ, that is so sad!

PS - Purple screen is what you get after you ResolveBackBuffer - they changed the behaviour in 2.0 in Windows to bring it in line with the way it worked on Xbox - caught a lot of people out when they first upgraded.
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Paul Cunningham
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fog
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« Reply #298 on: July 03, 2008, 12:58:08 PM »

I had what must have been a ten minute conversation with myself pretending to explain to my mate what vertex and pixel shaders were on the drive in to work today - christ, that is so sad!
Haha.  That's spectacularly geeky.  Congratulations sir.  Grin

Like I said, if you're a developer then shaderzzz are pretty funky,  I'm just not convinced anyone else really cares how they work.  If you ever have that discussion with your mate for real then you can confirm that Smiley

PS - Purple screen is what you get after you ResolveBackBuffer - they changed the behaviour in 2.0 in Windows to bring it in line with the way it worked on Xbox - caught a lot of people out when they first upgraded.
Ah right.  I hate that sort of problem, where you're convinced it's something you must have done and it turns out they've changed the way certain commands work.
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fog
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« Reply #299 on: July 04, 2008, 09:27:21 PM »

Currently writing some simple pixel shaderzzz for possible use in mono's background routines.  Nothing too fancy, just simple geometric distortions, but they should give a lot more variety than the old basic screen stretches.

From a design viewpoint it's not as straight forward as it might be.  It's very easy to create some lovely background distortions that warp and twist everything into beautiful patterns, but in mono many of those would be game breakers.  As the background is the scoring system and progress relies on you being able to see which parts of the screen still need colouring, any warping of the background image mustn't be too severe.

Quite frustrating in a way as I've got some lovely looking routines that I'm having to tone down.  Maybe I can unleash their full potential on the next game  BunnyMonkey!
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