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fog
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« Reply #585 on: June 15, 2009, 09:29:11 PM »

Now I can breath a sigh of relief...

The way I did it in XNA, was a bit sluggish, though it worked!
Not if you haven't done it on the 360 you can't Wink  Doing it on the PC is dead easy which certainly can't be said for doing it properly on the 360.


Have you done the asynchronous memory location selection stuff? It's incredibly tedious.
Yes  BunnyMonkey!  It's the first thing I've really done a bit of Googling and looked at some help files for and people have so many different ways of handling it it's bloody confusing never mind tedious.  Even the proper Creators Club example isn't very good as it just crashes if you cancel the device selector  Tongue
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« Reply #586 on: June 15, 2009, 09:47:19 PM »

The way I did it for DUOtrix was embarrassingly hacky. I hated that code, but whatever, it worked. Smiley

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binary zoo mobile developer | 32x32 . duotrix . geomex . smiley's shooty adventure . by caffeine monster software | my blog
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« Reply #587 on: June 16, 2009, 09:59:18 AM »

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Yes    It's the first thing I've really done a bit of Googling and looked at some help files for and people have so many different ways of handling it it's bloody confusing never mind tedious.  Even the proper Creators Club example isn't very good as it just crashes if you cancel the device selector

It's good to read some real hands on experience from a developer.  Theres so much hype used to promote products these days you'd be forgiven for thinking that every product is totaly flawless.

I'm quite suprised at the amout of work you have had to do in order to start creating games.

The XNA advertising hype gives the impression you can knock up a game within just a few hours.

Makes me shudder to think the amount of the work needed for a c++ developer without XNA.

I would have thought that XNA would come with a shed load of robust library routines you could simply plug into your own code.  File handling for example.
I'm not suprised bugs issues have been a problem for released games.

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« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 10:01:20 AM by The_Masked_Coder » Logged
fog
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« Reply #588 on: June 16, 2009, 12:36:38 PM »

It's good to read some real hands on experience from a developer.  Theres so much hype used to promote products these days you'd be forgiven for thinking that every product is totaly flawless.

I'm quite suprised at the amout of work you have had to do in order to start creating games.

The XNA advertising hype gives the impression you can knock up a game within just a few hours.

Makes me shudder to think the amount of the work needed for a c++ developer without XNA.

I would have thought that XNA would come with a shed load of robust library routines you could simply plug into your own code.  File handling for example.
I'm not suprised bugs issues have been a problem for released games.

To be fair to XNA, some/most parts are really easy to use and no harder than DBPro and I assume Blitz.  If I want to draw a sprite for example then it's simply:
Code:
spriteBatch.Draw( myImage, position, colour);
...with a bunch of overloads if you want to add rotation, scaling etc.  It couldn't be eassier.

Then in other areas things are slightly more long winded, but much more useful from a game design perspective.  Take text as an example.  In DBPro there is a ready made text command to get you started quickly, but it's use in games is virtually zero if you want something that looks good so you end up writing your own bitmap font handling code.

In XNA on the other hand there is no simple command to draw text to the screen immediately.  For new users I can see that being a stumbling block.  However, with only a few lines of code to set it up, you have the built in SpriteFont class which gives you almost instant bitmap fonts....something you would have to write yourself in DBPro.

One language makes things easier, whereas the other makes things slightly harder, but much much more useful and in the long run arguably requiring less code.

The problem with the file handling routines and all the other 360 specific stuff associated with them is that compared to the rest of the language they are a confusing mess.  After the joys of using the other command sets, it's a real shock to the system.  They give you "low level" access, but there are no useful benefits to that in my experience.  It's added extra flexibility and control, but in an area where I don't really need or want that, all it essentially is is unnecessary complication.  (*)

(*) Note:  Coders incompetence must also be taken into consideration.
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« Reply #589 on: June 16, 2009, 07:06:28 PM »

Yeah, XNA has alot of stuff already done for you. Making a simple game is easy and only takes a couple hours. But anything complex takes a large portion of work. They make easy stuff really easy and hard stuff really hard compared to what it should be. Alot of things that are simple aren't done too... For example FPS style camera control requires the mouse position to be reset to the center of the screen ever so often or it hits the side... there is no relative mouse position without doing it yourself and the solution feels pretty hackish.

Just my quick 2cents on XNA and hope I am not repeating stuff others have said.
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« Reply #590 on: June 16, 2009, 09:15:57 PM »

Hi and welcome Flame.  Smiley

And congratulations on a spectacular 2 years of lurking before finally posting.  Wink

Yeah, XNA has alot of stuff already done for you. Making a simple game is easy and only takes a couple hours. But anything complex takes a large portion of work. They make easy stuff really easy and hard stuff really hard compared to what it should be. Alot of things that are simple aren't done too... For example FPS style camera control requires the mouse position to be reset to the center of the screen ever so often or it hits the side... there is no relative mouse position without doing it yourself and the solution feels pretty hackish.

Just my quick 2cents on XNA and hope I am not repeating stuff others have said.
That's reassuring to hear.  At least I now know that my problems aren't just due to my coding incompetence.....well not entirely anyway  BunnyMonkey!

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« Reply #591 on: June 17, 2009, 08:40:19 PM »

OK I can kind of understand why Microsoft insist on all users being connected to Live while playing Community/Indie games, even if I don't agree with it, but why developers?  Why must we be connected to Live just to be able to test some code?  Bloody stupid.

So with Live being down for maintenance for 24 hrs and the screw up with the Creators Club update, that's 2 days coding effectively lost in the last week.

Microsoft really know how to test my ever diminishing patience.   BunnyMonkey!
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« Reply #592 on: June 18, 2009, 06:49:27 AM »

It is pretty stupid to have to be on Live to use local content, but cant you just test on your PC instead for those days?

A stunning example of microsoft stupidity I saw recently is this site (try looking at it with different browsers if you like. Or just swap the user agent). Maybe it isn't really that stupid, but I think it is (unless it is a joke).
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« Reply #593 on: June 18, 2009, 09:48:17 AM »

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A stunning example of microsoft stupidity I saw recently is this site (try looking at it with different browsers if you like. Or just swap the user agent). Maybe it isn't really that stupid, but I think it is (unless it is a joke).

 Shocked

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« Reply #594 on: June 18, 2009, 11:53:12 AM »

It is pretty stupid to have to be on Live to use local content, but cant you just test on your PC instead for those days?
I did the majority of the early testing on PC, but as I'm coding on a tiny eeePC there comes a point when that's not really practical any more.  Regardless of that, I've only really got the 360 specific stuff like file saving and handling player profiles to do now so 360 testing is essential.

I didn't totally waste the time as I ported over my old music visualisation routines, but I don't have a specific use for them in mind right now and I'd prefer to have been working on Echoes Smiley


A stunning example of microsoft stupidity I saw recently is this site (try looking at it with different browsers if you like. Or just swap the user agent). Maybe it isn't really that stupid, but I think it is (unless it is a joke).
That's the sort of cheap stunt I would expect from the little man and not from the company with a virtual monopoly on the new PC software market.  It sounds a bit desperate.
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« Reply #595 on: June 18, 2009, 03:47:23 PM »

Another day and another stupid stunt by Microsoft. Yesterday I found out about that and today I found out about this. It probably has been there for a while, but I just found out about it today. M$ really seems a bit desperate if they are doing stuff like that. Hopefully it means that IE will be gone soon....

I bet I really am making a great impression for my first few posts with all this whining about microsoft </sarcasm>. I promise I usually don't just post anti-ms propaganda (and sometimes I even contribute to the conversation  Smiley ).

I hope that Live is back by now and I am glad you at least got something done, regardless of how (un)necessary it is.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 04:01:13 PM by Flame » Logged

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« Reply #596 on: June 18, 2009, 08:54:59 PM »

Another day and another stupid stunt by Microsoft. Yesterday I found out about that and today I found out about this. It probably has been there for a while, but I just found out about it today. M$ really seems a bit desperate if they are doing stuff like that. Hopefully it means that IE will be gone soon....
I like the logic that goes "Firefox might be better at X and faster at Y, but we'll call it a draw"  BunnyMonkey!

I hope that Live is back by now and I am glad you at least got something done, regardless of how (un)necessary it is.
Yeah it's back....as long as you don't want everything to work properly.


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« Reply #597 on: June 19, 2009, 02:12:30 PM »

I wouldnt mind having an xbox so I could develop for it. As it is I am just using xna to make a couple computer games. It really seems like if it is not going to be on xbox I should just use directx/opengl directly to handle my game. I was actually thinking about trying to make something similar to mono except in 3D. Thoughts?
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« Reply #598 on: June 19, 2009, 03:41:16 PM »

In my experience, great 2D games make for horrible 3D games. YMMV.
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« Reply #599 on: June 19, 2009, 03:59:49 PM »

As it is I am just using xna to make a couple computer games. It really seems like if it is not going to be on xbox I should just use directx/opengl directly to handle my game.
Well I'm the last person to give advice on what language/SDK etc to use as I'm not exactly clued up on them.  Even if you're not using it for the 360 though, XNA does make a lot of stuff a hell of a lot easier than using something else might.  It really depends on what you want.  Direct X might be slightly faster and more flexible, but XNA makes development faster.

I've seen too many people over the years discussing the merits of various languages and engines and still failing to finish anything to know that the real answer is whatever language helps you see the job through to completion.

I was actually thinking about trying to make something similar to mono except in 3D. Thoughts?
mono is such a basic concept that you could translate it to 3D in loads of different ways so it would depend on what you had in mind.  I'm sure it could work, but it could also be horrible Smiley

In my experience, great 2D games make for horrible 3D games. YMMV.
What about crap 2D games? Wink
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