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fog
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« Reply #1110 on: October 15, 2010, 06:40:52 PM »

Quote
The sooner I get some PC specific options added to my game engine the better.

Amen to that.   Grin

That should really be my priority.

Writing down everything I have planned is just plain scary.

Add PC options
Release 1982 on XBox, PC & W7 Mobile(?)
Echoes+ PC
Mono morphic
DUO 2
Bangai O thingy
99 Bullets
Crack proper
Tension
+ 101 other ideas already designed  Tongue
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« Reply #1111 on: October 16, 2010, 08:02:51 AM »

And no doubt you'll end up doing something completely different to what you have planned.   Roll Eyes

I'm always getting sidetracked with new idea's and routines to try out.

And there's the time spent playing games too.  Which can be a real time sink.

Which reminds me.  It's about time i updated my blog as well.   Grin

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JDog053
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« Reply #1112 on: October 17, 2010, 02:30:22 PM »

Quote
The sooner I get some PC specific options added to my game engine the better.

Amen to that.   Grin

That should really be my priority.

Writing down everything I have planned is just plain scary.

Add PC options
Release 1982 on XBox, PC & W7 Mobile(?)
Echoes+ PC
Mono morphic
DUO 2
Bangai O thingy
99 Bullets
Crack proper
Tension
+ 101 other ideas already designed  Tongue

Ditto with me and Coursework. If I list it i'd probably cry Wink
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fog
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« Reply #1113 on: October 18, 2010, 05:52:07 PM »

And no doubt you'll end up doing something completely different to what you have planned.   Roll Eyes
Absolutely guaranteed Smiley

What I work on when 1982 is finally released will just depend on how I feel on that day so I've given up making plans.


Which reminds me.  It's about time i updated my blog as well.   Grin
yes you should Wink
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fog
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« Reply #1114 on: October 26, 2010, 08:47:33 PM »

Admittedly I haven't even Googled this so apologies if it's blindingly obvious  Tongue .....

Has anyone emulated a W7 Mobile and tested their XNA code yet?  And if anyone has attempted it then how much extra code is needed to get it working properly?  Is it really as minimal as the differences between the 360 and PC code (ie. none other than alternative control schemes)

 
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JDog053
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« Reply #1115 on: October 26, 2010, 09:46:46 PM »

Admittedly I haven't even Googled this so apologies if it's blindingly obvious  Tongue .....

Has anyone emulated a W7 Mobile and tested their XNA code yet?  And if anyone has attempted it then how much extra code is needed to get it working properly?  Is it really as minimal as the differences between the 360 and PC code (ie. none other than alternative control schemes)
 

I've written some WP7 code and it was fairly straight forward but some things have changed, not sure exactly what, but i don't believe ResolveTexture2D's are available anymore.
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fog
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« Reply #1116 on: October 28, 2010, 03:39:49 PM »

Admittedly I haven't even Googled this so apologies if it's blindingly obvious  Tongue .....

Has anyone emulated a W7 Mobile and tested their XNA code yet?  And if anyone has attempted it then how much extra code is needed to get it working properly?  Is it really as minimal as the differences between the 360 and PC code (ie. none other than alternative control schemes)
 

I've written some WP7 code and it was fairly straight forward but some things have changed, not sure exactly what, but i don't believe ResolveTexture2D's are available anymore.
I knew Zune stuff was restricted to SpriteBatch and not 3D, I had hoped the W7M stuff mught have fewer restrictions

ResolveTexture2D you say?  Hmm.
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PaulCunningham
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« Reply #1117 on: October 28, 2010, 04:37:49 PM »

I've got Ultratron running on the emulator  Grin

So, first thing to look at are 3.1 -> 4.0 changes....

SpriteBatch.Draw()...
Color (default texture processor now uses pre multiplied alpha - you can get the old behaviour though by tweaking the props in the content project.  I went with pre mult as it's better and I changed my coloury stuff to accommodate)...
No ResolveTexture, but you just simply specify the rendertarget up front now if you need to do any post processing (e.g. set render target, draw scene, use render targets contents as source to your shaders). Storage changes: no iterating through folders to get the files in them - just an OpenStream method on the TitleContainer.

Can't think of anything else that should cause any probs.

Then you've got the changes required for the phone...
Input obviously - some nice samples on the creator site for gestures and virtual thumbsticks.
You'll probably want separate XboxAndPC content projects and Phone content projects.
Phone projects must use the REACH profile.
You'll need to look at Tombstoning (restoring state after an interuption).
No XACT on phone (but I don't think you use that do you)
erm probably some little things that I forget now.

I estimate it took me about 3 or 4 hours to go from 3.1 -> 4.0.  Phone stuff I'm still tweaking.
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Paul Cunningham
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fog
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« Reply #1118 on: October 28, 2010, 07:13:02 PM »

Cheers Paul. Helpful as ever.

If it took you 3 or 4 hours I'm probably looking at days as I don't evn know what some of that stuff you mentioned is lol Smiley

I've got Ultratron running on the emulator  Grin
Wow cool.  Are you thinking of getting a phone for dev purposes?  I'm still torn between sticking with iPhone or making the jump to W7 Mobile.  I don't think I can justify both.


No ResolveTexture, but you just simply specify the rendertarget up front now if you need to do any post processing (e.g. set render target, draw scene, use render targets contents as source to your shaders).
Not looking forward to that.  I haven't looked at that code for about a year now, but I can remember that I made it overly complicated   Tongue


Input obviously - some nice samples on the creator site for gestures and virtual thumbsticks.
I'm not a fan of virtual controls so I'll be avoiding them altogether where possible.  I know 1982 wont use any.

The iPad version of Geometry Wars has probably the best implementation I've seen of twin stick controls so if I ever need those I'll look at copying that.  Still far from ideal mind.



So as you're obviously an expert in this now Smiley would you recommend parallel development or finish the code for one format and them add the necessary tweaks for the other formats later?
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JDog053
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« Reply #1119 on: October 28, 2010, 08:57:11 PM »

I'm in your mindset Fog, virtual controls don't really do it for me either.

Looking forward to see what sort of games will be on the WP7 though, and i'll be getting one for testing purposes!
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PaulCunningham
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« Reply #1120 on: October 29, 2010, 03:52:55 PM »

If it took you 3 or 4 hours I'm probably looking at days as I don't evn know what some of that stuff you mentioned is lol Smiley

Shawn Hargreaves has a list of all the changes in various blog posts. Trust me, it's mostly removing code. Storage stumped me for a while on the best approach.  I've gone for short term hack at the moment as I'm predicting they'll make it nicer in 5. The Phone has IsolatedStorage instead of StorageDevice and StorageContianer - not sure why they didn't wrap it in the existing XNA classes, maybe time got the better of them? I've just created phone version of the StorageX classes and #if defined them.

Wow cool.  Are you thinking of getting a phone for dev purposes?  I'm still torn between sticking with iPhone or making the jump to W7 Mobile.  I don't think I can justify both.

Dunno, normally I would but funds are tight at the moment. Think I'd prefer an iPhone.  Maybe if they bought out a new Zune I'd go for that instead.

Not looking forward to that.  I haven't looked at that code for about a year now, but I can remember that I made it overly complicated   Tongue

My draw code now is basically...

SetRenderTarget(texture1)
Draw stuff...
Post process
   draw texture1 into texture2 with bloom
   swap texture1 and texture2
   draw texture1 into texture2 with scanlines
   swap texture1 and texture2
   draw texture1 into texture2 with shockwave / ripple
   swap texture1 and texture2
   
SetRenderTarget(null)
Draw texture1 full screen

I'm not a fan of virtual controls so I'll be avoiding them altogether where possible.  I know 1982 wont use any.

The iPad version of Geometry Wars has probably the best implementation I've seen of twin stick controls so if I ever need those I'll look at copying that.  Still far from ideal mind.

I've not played any twin stick shooters on iPad or iPhone but my hands are tied with Ultratron really. Not even sure I'll release as it's all a bit too teeny to play properly.

So as you're obviously an expert in this now Smiley would you recommend parallel development or finish the code for one format and them add the necessary tweaks for the other formats later?

I think as my main priority is the Xbox, I'll do Xbox code first, play test, peer review and then once on the market place do any Phone change later.  It shouldn't be that much work...tweak resources and tweak UI if needs be.  That's assuming the game is a fit for both devices.

The reason I've dabbled with the phone stuff now is the fact that you couldn't deploy 4.0 to the 360.
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Paul Cunningham
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fog
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« Reply #1121 on: October 31, 2010, 01:10:52 PM »

Thanks again Paul.  I've since seen the thread on YY discussing W7M.  Interesting Smiley  Sounds like Microsoft have a mountain to climb to make it a success.


Not looking forward to that.  I haven't looked at that code for about a year now, but I can remember that I made it overly complicated    Tongue

My draw code now is basically...

SetRenderTarget(texture1)
Draw stuff...
Post process
   draw texture1 into texture2 with bloom
   swap texture1 and texture2
   draw texture1 into texture2 with scanlines
   swap texture1 and texture2
   draw texture1 into texture2 with shockwave / ripple
   swap texture1 and texture2
   
SetRenderTarget(null)
Draw texture1 full screen
Thanks.  In my case it's all the other code I've wrapped around the normal XNA draw code that's overcomplicating things.  Oh well.


I've not played any twin stick shooters on iPad or iPhone but my hands are tied with Ultratron really. Not even sure I'll release as it's all a bit too teeny to play properly.
Can you simulate the multi-touch needed for the twin sticks on an emulator?

I'd try a twin stick shooter or in fact anything with virtual controls if you get the chance.  I must admit I was pretty shocked at how badly it works in practice.  With no tactile feedback your fingers wander off the controls constantly.

With a traditional controller people would rightly complain if they died just once due to poor or unresponsive controls.  On touch screen devices it's somehow become acceptable that a huge proportion of your deaths will be due to them.

having said that I have played some games which don't just recreate normal controls with buttons on screen and these mostly work very well.

With analogue sticks it's often difficult to return them to a neutral position unless you code a huge dead zone.  Geometry Wars gets around this cleverly.  Rather than having the analogue stick center in a fixed position, it places it wherever your thumb first touches the screen.  If ever your thumb wanders and you need to re-center the stick you quickly lift your thumb and put it down again and the stick center is moved to that point.

And in Pac Man you can use on screen controls, but by far the best control method IMO is the one that lets you swipe anywhere on screen and your character moves in that direction.  It's very responsive and you don't need to worry about hitting little buttons on a virtual d-pad.

Yeah it's a pet hate ;P


The reason I've dabbled with the phone stuff now is the fact that you couldn't deploy 4.0 to the 360.
It's a good job you know what's going on.  I'm waaaaay out of the loop.  The only time I've ventured into Indie Games in the past 12 months is when I know yourself or SiN have uploaded something.

It's not just down to a lack of time either.  I used to try all the recommendations from certain sites, then the dashboard got so slow it was taking minutes just to refresh my games list so I could select a game.  I can't believe Microsoft still haven't sorted that out.
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fog
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« Reply #1122 on: November 02, 2010, 02:47:15 PM »

So the new Xbox360 dash board then.  Well I eventually found Indie Games hidden in the Specialist Shop (or some similar nonsense) and not under Games any more.  Hmm.

EDIT:
Just been over to xnPlay to see if they had anything to say about the new dash and seen they are closing.  Sad times.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 02:58:08 PM by fog » Logged

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« Reply #1123 on: November 05, 2010, 06:43:29 AM »

Yeh, i've read various comments from indie dev's and they are all saying that MS has basically made a very bad mistake.

I'm guessing because indie games hasn't been the success they had hoped it would be.  Certainly from a financial point of view.

The big saviour for Xna indie dev though is that PC dev is still a viable option.  It's not as if Xbox was the be all and end all for Xna.

I wonder if most Xna indie dev's will switch to PC now.   Roll Eyes

As it looks like MS is winding down the Xbox indie dev scene.

Which was my fear all along.

I posted here several times that i thought MS would move the goal posts at some point.  Which is why i chose not to switch to Xna.

I'm really only a hbbiest programmer anyway.   Grin

More incentive for you Fog to get those PC specific options coded.   Cheesy

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« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 06:45:05 AM by The_Masked_Coder » Logged
fog
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« Reply #1124 on: November 08, 2010, 10:23:36 PM »

Yeh, i've read various comments from indie dev's and they are all saying that MS has basically made a very bad mistake.

I'm guessing because indie games hasn't been the success they had hoped it would be.  Certainly from a financial point of view.
Depends on which way you look at it I suppose.  Sure compared to XBox Live Arcade and full commercial games it's made peanuts but it's probably still made them a decent amount of cash considering how much effort they've put into it.

And I'm not convinced the intention was for it to be a huge financial success for numerous reasons I wont bore you with now. Smiley


The big saviour for Xna indie dev though is that PC dev is still a viable option.  It's not as if Xbox was the be all and end all for Xna.

I wonder if most Xna indie dev's will switch to PC now.   Roll Eyes
Very few IMO.  The thing is the thousands of XNA games that have already been completed could be released on PC with a few tweaks, but very few devs seem to bother.  Other than Paul I don't know of any others.

I can see a lot of devs moving over to iPhone or Android development and mobile platforms seem to be where it's at right now.


I posted here several times that i thought MS would move the goal posts at some point.  Which is why i chose not to switch to Xna.
Yeah, if you go back a couple of years you'll read my fears for Indie Games and how I thought Microsoft were promoting it.  Sadly they've made other mistakes since then too.  ( I say "mistakes", but I'm sure there are factors such as pressure from commercial developers involved).

Anyway even knowing all of this I'm still glad I changed to XNA.  I've learnt a lot, it's a lovely language to code in and most importantly I've enjoyed it....and it's still incredibly satisfying seeing something running on the 360. Smiley

And whatever happens to Indie Games, XNA is still a huge thing for Microsoft so I look forward to seeing how it continues to evolve.
 
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